This is starting as a "no words" post. Just a recommendation. So that I'm actually likely to publish it.
I have several posts that are unpublished... some are WIP projects of things that I'll potentially cycle back to... others degenerate into rambling blurbs without enough payoff for the words spent.
Of late I've been into music consciously more than other times. So those suspended music posts tend to be blithering about why this or that is so great.
- - - and then i add and add... - - -
Around August 2022 I discovered Guthrie Govan and thence the band The Aristocrats.
I watched a bunch of youtube clips - lots of live performances, researched a bit, and ended up getting 3 albums 'The Aristocrats' (self-titled 2011), the '...With Primuz Chamber Orchestra' (2022), and Guthrie's 'Erotic Cakes' (2006).
Guthrie is simply one of the most complete musicians I've ever seen/heard. Totally understands what he's doing and why, has a broad knowledge of his 'chosen genre' as well as many others, and technically astonishing.
Eloquent: His playing is always musical. There's technical stuff but it's there for a reason, it's not just showing off. He doesn't just repeat patterns over and over because he's stuck for an idea, he moves them around and creates melodies with the patterns which is really 'jazz'. He also plays phrases beyond bar lines and structures which is, to be honest, seemingly beyond most jazz players (I have a good example of Alex Han (sax) doing it and it's such a rarity that I remember it, haha).
This caries across to when he explains technique or style or is introducing a song and it's origins. It's not just the convincing accent. If you have some musical theory then the stuff he talks about makes sense, and really it's not even cutting edge or outside the box thinking... it's just that most people can't fuse that into internalized connection and theory directly to the guitar (/instrument).
Feel: I read someone commenting on a G3 jam (with Govan, Vai, Satriani) that Satriani had the best 'feel' of the three. I've listened to tracks of Guthrie that are so appropriate, so in time, so capturing the spirit on the song/genre/style that I've had tears. I get what they're saying about Joe, but Guthrie has bucket loads of feel, he also had bucket loads of technique [many examples later], and a lot of people mistakenly seem to think you can't have both.
There was an interview with GG and basically he was saying that there are 'local blues heroes' who put down people for knowing lots of scales and technical stuff, saying that it ruins a player's 'feel' - clearly this is just jealously (my words, not his, but I'm less eloquent and don't have the accent).
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LKsxoh6WJxI
Flow: He moves from one technique to something else, then something else, all incredibly musically, fluidly and effortlessly. For mortals we often see/hear/think then do something (on the instrument), then switch gears, even if only momentarily - but there's no moment with GG. Regular lines, tapping, bends, tremolo... I'm not a guitarist so I don't know all the terms, but as an ex-musician I can see the technique. He really makes the instrument an extension of his body and mind.
Guthrie's much closer to a jazz guitarists in a lot of ways (knowledge, style, vocabulary, phrasing) - other comparable guitarists include Pat Metheny, John Schofield, John McLaughlin. Steve Vai and Ron Thal are also up there in terms of technique and musicality but they're similar 'Prog Metal'/'Instrumental Rock'.
I just listened to someone else playing a solo section from Ner Ner and watching/listening it occurred to me how frequently the melody moves on to something else. Not only that it moves in unexpected way. Where a lesser musician might repeat phrases or patterns letting their creative brain catch up, Guthrie has already moved on to the next thing, which comes across as unexpected (ties in from the 'Flow' point). This should be how jazz players operate, not just trying to play 'in' lines over chord changes to prove they can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7FwuhqDas [Ner Ner - cover]
Trios
Trio's (to me) tend to something sound 'hollow' and sometimes. In terms of jazz less so when you have piano or guitar that can add that 'comp'ing element), but i find it quite noticable with i.e. sax/horn+bass+drums. Similarly I find that Aristocrat live performances sometimes have a 'something missing'.
The studio albums usually add extra tracks to add extra layers, and obviously the 'With Orchestra' just fills up that soundscape (in a good way) exponentially.
I think playing live shows and using pre-recorded backing tracks can be appropriate. There are arguments to be made for and against but provided the musicians aren't lip-syncing whether they do or do not is an artistic choice. Provided the performance still does justice to the song.
With Orchestra
The arrangements on this are suburb. They're not done by the band specifically (though I guess they could probably orchestrate the songs themselves if they put the time in). But yeah, the guy who did (Wojtek Lemanski) clearly has an ear for the instrumental rock/metal and really pulled out what it was about.
The Aristocrats also seem perfectly aligned with the sound throughout. They phenomenal musicians, so hardly surprising.
It's probably superfluous singling out individual tracks merits (that's why the posts don't get released). However at the moment I'm really enjoying Through the Flower and Last Orders
Last Orders - Orchestra Tracking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXHWP5v8DCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFxp4uu73t0 [original off of album]
The solo on this is beautiful, reminds me of Jimmy Page and/or Jimi Hendrix a bit - triggers memories of Kashmir or Watchtower for some reason. I like how it's focused around the lower register for a change, just wails, and is probably what reminds me of Jimi.
And the position (and orchestration) in the arrangement really put it at the climax of the song. Love it when songs are really built towards a purpose.
I reckon Jimi Hendrix would have absolutely loved Guthrie's playing and dug his style. Funny, without Hendrix I find it difficult to imagine Guthrie, and Via, and Satriani and so many others evolving as they did. He is (still) such an extraordinarily influential force in the development of modern music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlCa3Z-WgiM [Jimi - just found this today]
Bad Asteroid - Live
This is a great clip. Marco's an extraordinary drummer. The start is a bit of fun but shows (imo) an understanding of the setting, and then fit in. And Bad Asteroid is one of my favourite songs (after the drumming).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzaEQJ1l90s
Just Guthrie - Sevens - Live
Mind blowing from start to end. It's also nice (from a study perspective) that he's playing solo so the video doesn't cut between band members. This is a Guthrie solo song. I could point out fun features all the way... just watch and listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDf-41BhdxM
At a jam
At 0:54 there's a rising pattern up to a bend up that's totally sick.
Then at 1:08-1:17 there a section where it sounds like he's going to start playing a repeating pattern, but then he moves it around and makes a 'macro picture' melody while using the pattern, rather than just playing the same thing over and over. Extraordinary, and you can see the other guitarist realize it, which is amusing (and cool that they can appreciate someone else's chops).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC2lEWfpgQo
another recording of the same thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_qNBApQ8KU
also with the solo from John Petrucci... who i've never really been into. obviously he's talented.
" the thing that makes guthrie's playing transcendent is that he is not, "i'm going to play lots of notes" and that he is, "i happen to play lots of notes... and i'm going to make something musical, meaningful and beautiful." "
Another Sevens - Live
Just another great example in general.
2:28 - 2:50 no way you can tell me that he's not feeling the music any less than any other giant... after shredding the melody six ways from sunday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHNtxA7L_SU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVkbXMNF8A (same performance, different camera i think)
Wonderful Slippery Think - Live
Fun bluesy structure. Great musicians with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvtUvQczaRk
It's a feature of this genre that you have quite a technical song, and then usually variations on a theme when playing live. Guthrie does a lot more improvisation, and while the chords aren't jazz progressions, he shreds the heck of them.
Someone's Favourite
I like this because not only is it a nice solo, it's got the transcription so you can actually see all the nuance that's in it. Kind of cheating... but I'll take it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IVorIw7Gk
Dance of the Aristocrats - I can't not put this in here.
There's a solo at 2:54 that's just mind blowing. Just idea after idea and technique after technique. there's no extending wigidy-wigidys time fillers, as soon as he gets a pattern a couple of times he hears it and moves it somewhere else, it's actually pretty spectacular. Notable as well around 3:49 he starts doing some fast note lines which are technical enough, but they start at the end of a section (verse) and cross into the next section (bridge) perfectly naturally. People get locked to the form soooooooo much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_NT4NEYR4
Some talk by them from a DVD...
A good summary of them, the processes, the intentions. It's great now days how we have visual/audio access to this kind of inside knowledge, rather than just someone talking about it in historic hindsight.
a point: at 0:31 , 0:48 one of the main melodies. it's good. it's just a demonstration of the 'thinness' of the trio. sounds wack filled out in the orchestra version though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygdtsQyLM8Y
Disclaimer and a Theory
Some people don't like 'guitar music'. That's ok. I hate listening to bagpipes, clarinets (oboes, flutes - anything high hurts my ears) and kazoos, but people do, and that's ok too. oh, and banjos. ewwww.
I dislike opera, I dislike 'punk' based music, and most folk music doesn't do it for me either (plus others). But people like all of the above and that's great.
So my theory is that 'comp/prog' metal is probably the modern equivalent of classical music.
Despite having rock origin (modern folk music imo) it can be very complex melodically/rhythmically/harmonically and with advanced levels of considered composition, form and layers.
I've long thought of Via's music as 'compositions' rather than 'songs'. And there are more and more bands (or more accurately i'm discovering more and more bands) pushing the technical boundaries beyond 12 bar blues, and bending notes to sound 'bluesy' and to have 'feel'.
An orchestra had to be big to create enough volume from quiet instruments. In modern times we have amps. Lots of amps sometimes. Over the years I've really come to think of (electric) as probably the ultimate instrument for most settings... which kind of surprised me. ha!
Multi-level layering of sounds was achieved by having multiple instruments in a band section. This can be achieved on a guitar or synth/keyboard easily and a seemingly endless plethora of sonic effects, layers and sounds can be added.
'Orchestral Music' was 'sit down and listen' music. Not dance music, not sing-a-longs, not background music. It was intended to be appreciated as a form of art specifically. comp/prog metal much the same, only the audience don't need to get up in the sunday best - they can have a bear and wear tee shirts, and the artists don't need to wear a tux to prove they're 'fancy'.
Comp(ositional) Metal is my term for Progressive Metal / Instrumental Rock. To me Progressive doesn't mean much, it could progress to something worse. At least Compositional indicates that it was written specifically, not just 'jammed out' in a garage session.
I watched a vid of Virgil Donati working on an album (Runination)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULpqeceUKg
the first minute pretty much covers it.
And this from the album before this one (In This Life)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEMp1BW-YGs
So in the 'Ruination' he's composing with keyboard and computer.
Movies depict old classic era composers with quill and goblet at the piano in what I consider an analogous process. I speculate that Mozart and Beethoven would have LOVED the scope that technology would have given them access to.
Derek Sherinian's albums are wonderful composed pieces (making of Phoenix - link below), and the adjacent Sons of Apollo albums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR_ee8g3b_c
Blither complete. Ha!
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