a couple of quotes for starters...
"Possibly the most iconic force in the 40k and 30k worlds and the most common force you will encounter on a Warhammer 40k tabletop. Sadly though in Epic 40k they are not an ideal learning army and can be quite tricky to learn. Basically marines are a strike force, all of your troops are great but you won't get heaps of them and if you use them poorly you'll lose the attrition game every time."
from D6 Addiction
"But first a note on how Epic: Armageddon designs army lists. The game tries to avoid ‘generalist’ lists where it can and instead tries to have lists that focus on a playstyle.
"But first a note on how Epic: Armageddon designs army lists. The game tries to avoid ‘generalist’ lists where it can and instead tries to have lists that focus on a playstyle.
...
Space marines are a finesse force, requiring a firm grasp of how to get your models into positions to support one another, focusing their force in a small area of the table, destroying the opposition there and then often leaving the table again to rapidly shift the focus of attack to a different point. This makes them less beginner friendly than might be expected from Warhammer 40k but it does mean they play more like a group of special operative teams finding ways to overcome far larger numbers of opposition."
They must be different
It was one of the design parameters that the list needed to be substantially different to most of the other (especially) original marines lists.
Not just marines with extra tanks (scions), or marines with extra bikes (white scars).
There had to be a substantial reason for a new list, not just to put a known name on effectively a rebadged codex list.
This has been done with the Chaos Marines lists so it can be done.
So, how are these Black Templars actually different to Codex Marines?
The following changes evolved quickly over several versions of the list...
+ Mandatory Spacecraft
A central concept to the BT theme is being an air-heavy, crusading force. This means you need a spacecraft.
+ WE transports into aircraft/support section
The BT army is an 'independent' fighting force (i.e. mobile and not tied to a homeworld or other force structure) so the Air Support is no longer kept as an 'allied force'; it is integral to the BT structure.
This allows a shuffle of transports (i.e. thunderhawks) off the main list and into the air support section.
It also means that interceptors are now piloted by Marines giving them better initiative rolls etc.
A notable restructure is a limit of 50% AC/support meaning that you need to take at least half your points as infantry/ground forces, enforcing a 'Marine list with AC' rather than an 'AC list with some token Marines'.
+ Structured troop selections (crusaders vs support)
The Codex Marines list is often berated for the free-form selection of troops smorgasboard. Many other armies require you take 'core units' in order to take 'support units'. The Black Templar list requires you to take Crusader formations (Tactical Marines) in order to take support formations. This helps promote the 'air assault' intent of the list.
+ No titans or big guns
Being independent and lightweight isn't all pluses. The list has no access to titans allies as Codex Marines do. In fact the list is extremely light on TK and Macro weapons (even by Codex Marines standards). I guess it could be argued that the BT force could hook up with other forces on campaign but... shut up.
+ Prominent characters
The new, mandatory Emperor's Champion unit is a largely thematic addition but hopefully get the player in the mood for assault. Marshalls and Castellans continue the BT badging and of course no librarians are suffered within the ranks of the zealous.
+ Special units (who says only dark angels get the new toys?)
Stormravens; Available in two flavours, transport and gunship.
Deathstorm Drop Pods; Not a transport unit, guns only.
Neophytes; If you were to think 'expendable meatshields for tactical units'... BT don't get scouts they get these to boost the unit numbers instead. In game jargon; 'expendable'.
Sword Brethren; taken from one of the original BT lists, CC tactical specialists. Suitably useless against skimmer armies. Thematic though.
Assault Terminators; as above but dialled up to terminator. A chance to build hammernators or lightning claws dudes.
Starting (BT) Marines
As usual the list presents a conundrum for new players... especially those that really like the idea of playing Marines;
- Do i learn Marines as ground-pounders to learn the rules and get beat down in the process?
Space marines are a finesse force, requiring a firm grasp of how to get your models into positions to support one another, focusing their force in a small area of the table, destroying the opposition there and then often leaving the table again to rapidly shift the focus of attack to a different point. This makes them less beginner friendly than might be expected from Warhammer 40k but it does mean they play more like a group of special operative teams finding ways to overcome far larger numbers of opposition."
from guildford games club
Exactly the same as Marines... only different
I started my Epic career with Marines. The people i've demo'd the game to usually start with marines vs marines to learn the mechanics of the game; in part due to model availability (mine); in part due to my own familiarity with unit stats etc. Marines are even used in the EA rule book Training Scenarios. It is a catch-22.
It is something of a rude shock - after learning to move, shoot and assault - to then face an army of [insert any other faction here] that will seemingly pick apart your Marines force piecemeal as you try to run them across the table.
It is something of a rude shock - after learning to move, shoot and assault - to then face an army of [insert any other faction here] that will seemingly pick apart your Marines force piecemeal as you try to run them across the table.
As part of my Black Templars army project i fully intended to strongly bias the army as an air-mobile (only) force (as intended) rather than a generic, ground-based army (rookie mistake as per quotes at top of page). In a way forcing myself to forego tanks and titans for... well, something else... but what?
Research
I knew in passing that there were already experimental army lists floating round for Black Templars but after a bit of research i discovered that what was available wasn't really what i was after.
EpicUK have a 'live' list, but EpicUK lists are usually written 'differently enough' to preclude their use with the netEA/epicAU tournament/meta dominant in my part of the world. At least that is the perception and i'd happily play someone a casual game with a UK list any day of the week.
And there was a list on Taccmd that didn't seem to get past developmental(?) phase with the last updates/posts back in 2015. The Taccmd list started with some promising features, but then seemed to redact some of the fun stuff and nerf back towards vanilla Marines again.
From Scratch
I decided instead to try my hand authoring my own army list (risking soul-flensing criticism if it's OP, OP, or just plain stupid - so yes, i know the risks there).
Foremost in my mind from inception of this project was always Theme...
- How are Black Templars different from Codex Marines?
- Are they different enough to warrant their own list?
- What specifically makes Black Templars what they are?
- How can this be expressed in unit and formation availability?
Starting with point values and formation structures from netEA/epicAU Codex Marines i added concepts from the Taccmd development project and also referenced in passing the EpicUK list (thinking always, "Does the list change i'm contemplating fit the BT Theme?").
The 4th ed. Codex got a thumb through and i also had in mind some ideas from black library fiction i'd read.
I also got some invaluable feedback from my gaming buddies in terms of new concepts and constructive criticism of what i'd done. Many thanks to them.
Then shazam! an army list was made...
Codex Astartes - Black Templars [link to current version - 20200724]
From Scratch
I decided instead to try my hand authoring my own army list (risking soul-flensing criticism if it's OP, OP, or just plain stupid - so yes, i know the risks there).
Foremost in my mind from inception of this project was always Theme...
- How are Black Templars different from Codex Marines?
- Are they different enough to warrant their own list?
- What specifically makes Black Templars what they are?
- How can this be expressed in unit and formation availability?
Starting with point values and formation structures from netEA/epicAU Codex Marines i added concepts from the Taccmd development project and also referenced in passing the EpicUK list (thinking always, "Does the list change i'm contemplating fit the BT Theme?").
The 4th ed. Codex got a thumb through and i also had in mind some ideas from black library fiction i'd read.
I also got some invaluable feedback from my gaming buddies in terms of new concepts and constructive criticism of what i'd done. Many thanks to them.
Then shazam! an army list was made...
Codex Astartes - Black Templars [link to current version - 20200724]
Opening Shots... Back to the Drawing Board
After finishing the army build i naturally played a test game or two because it's always fun fielding your new units before the paint sets.
After finishing the army build i naturally played a test game or two because it's always fun fielding your new units before the paint sets.
Anyway, true to (dumb) form i wrote ground-centric lists albeit with new Templary infantry blobs, and stormravens as transports etc.
While the feel of the new army was notably different to vanilla Marines (more 'horde-like' and 'skimmer-mobile') they survived but hardly flourished, towards loses or stalemates.
I also ran the list once at my FLGS with similarly uninspired results; pretty army... my condolences on your latest loss.
The eureka moment occurred weeks later after seeing a 'total air assault' list produced by a game buddy (for Codex Marines). Like a crisp smack to the face i realised; NOTHING is deployed at the start of the game!
Holy carp... take that a little further...
EVERYTHING is loaded on spacecraft - NOTHING is deployed at the start of the game - EVERYTHING arrives by planetfall or AC/WE... when the spacecraft arrives... on turn 3. [Maybe turn 2 if you're feeling vindictive and want to draw out your enemy's suffering 😜]
The eureka moment occurred weeks later after seeing a 'total air assault' list produced by a game buddy (for Codex Marines). Like a crisp smack to the face i realised; NOTHING is deployed at the start of the game!
Holy carp... take that a little further...
EVERYTHING is loaded on spacecraft - NOTHING is deployed at the start of the game - EVERYTHING arrives by planetfall or AC/WE... when the spacecraft arrives... on turn 3. [Maybe turn 2 if you're feeling vindictive and want to draw out your enemy's suffering 😜]
It occurred to me that THIS was precisely what the Black Templar army list should be about. Does it fit the Black Templar Theme? Throne yes!
The Terminator Teleporter
A pre-cursor event to all of this happened at Castle Assault 2017.
I had the pleasure of experiencing defeat (a running theme) to a Melbourne chap who ran a list containing nothing but Terminators and Aircraft.
I had the pleasure of experiencing defeat (a running theme) to a Melbourne chap who ran a list containing nothing but Terminators and Aircraft.
For the first two turns the AC pummelled my troops and on turn 3 he teleported in 4 or 5 formations of terminators onto objectives.
From my understanding it had limited success against other, sturdier factions but it was certainly a eye opener as to alternate (and perfectly legitimate) play styles.
Steel Rain, to the max
...and hence the late-built landing craft.
So i loaded up my new 'total air assault' list with extra zeal, crammed my spacecraft to the gills with drop pods and transports, then headed to my local FLGS.
Suffice to say it was exhilarating to finally have Marines... well... playing like Marines should (both in terms of stats/intention and also fluff); arriving at (more or less) full strength and crashing abruptly into enemy lines directly rather than crumbling into ineffectiveness as they slog their way across the board.
Even running some ground forces with a high percent of air assault blobs doesn't quite capture 'the theme' in my mind (and leaves your lonely scouting forces as the only option for a target-frustrated opponent's guns).
Of course... the air assault 'effect' can also be achieved with (vanilla) Codex Marines - it's definitely not BT only - though i have added some extra zing for Black Templars.
They must be different
It was one of the design parameters that the list needed to be substantially different to most of the other (especially) original marines lists.
Not just marines with extra tanks (scions), or marines with extra bikes (white scars).
There had to be a substantial reason for a new list, not just to put a known name on effectively a rebadged codex list.
This has been done with the Chaos Marines lists so it can be done.
So, how are these Black Templars actually different to Codex Marines?
The following changes evolved quickly over several versions of the list...
+ Mandatory Spacecraft
A central concept to the BT theme is being an air-heavy, crusading force. This means you need a spacecraft.
+ WE transports into aircraft/support section
The BT army is an 'independent' fighting force (i.e. mobile and not tied to a homeworld or other force structure) so the Air Support is no longer kept as an 'allied force'; it is integral to the BT structure.
This allows a shuffle of transports (i.e. thunderhawks) off the main list and into the air support section.
It also means that interceptors are now piloted by Marines giving them better initiative rolls etc.
A notable restructure is a limit of 50% AC/support meaning that you need to take at least half your points as infantry/ground forces, enforcing a 'Marine list with AC' rather than an 'AC list with some token Marines'.
+ Structured troop selections (crusaders vs support)
The Codex Marines list is often berated for the free-form selection of troops smorgasboard. Many other armies require you take 'core units' in order to take 'support units'. The Black Templar list requires you to take Crusader formations (Tactical Marines) in order to take support formations. This helps promote the 'air assault' intent of the list.
+ No titans or big guns
Being independent and lightweight isn't all pluses. The list has no access to titans allies as Codex Marines do. In fact the list is extremely light on TK and Macro weapons (even by Codex Marines standards). I guess it could be argued that the BT force could hook up with other forces on campaign but... shut up.
+ Prominent characters
The new, mandatory Emperor's Champion unit is a largely thematic addition but hopefully get the player in the mood for assault. Marshalls and Castellans continue the BT badging and of course no librarians are suffered within the ranks of the zealous.
+ Special units (who says only dark angels get the new toys?)
Stormravens; Available in two flavours, transport and gunship.
Deathstorm Drop Pods; Not a transport unit, guns only.
Neophytes; If you were to think 'expendable meatshields for tactical units'... BT don't get scouts they get these to boost the unit numbers instead. In game jargon; 'expendable'.
Sword Brethren; taken from one of the original BT lists, CC tactical specialists. Suitably useless against skimmer armies. Thematic though.
Assault Terminators; as above but dialled up to terminator. A chance to build hammernators or lightning claws dudes.
Starting (BT) Marines
As usual the list presents a conundrum for new players... especially those that really like the idea of playing Marines;
- Do i learn Marines as ground-pounders to learn the rules and get beat down in the process?
(you can learn a lot from getting beaten, though it's sometimes hard not to be deflated by loss after loss. stick with it.)
- Do i learn the basics with a "beginner friendly" army and possibly come back to Marines later?
- Do i learn the basics with a "beginner friendly" army and possibly come back to Marines later?
(do you actually like other factions? do you have models available? it's certainly not a bad thing to learn about other factions, stats/capabilities etc, and something you will have to do eventually.)
- Do i try to get my head around air assault from the get go while trying to learn basic rules as well?
- Do i try to get my head around air assault from the get go while trying to learn basic rules as well?
(depends how quickly you grasp things i guess and how much you want it. if you have experienced players around to coach you it might make the process easier.)
If you read the last paragraph of blatant opinion as, "as a new player, do i really want to step straight into a black templars force where my best chance of winning is 'use advanced tactics'?" i wouldn't blame you. I would never dissuade someone from playing Marines (they're way cool) just be aware of their quirks, try to have fun with what you're doing, and trust that expertise will come with time.
Future
At the moment the ink is barely dry on the list, though I don't envisage many major changes; maybe a few small tweeks.
My intention for 2018 is to field testing like crazy and hopefully getting some kind of official support for these sword-wielding maniacs.
Later - 20190605
While the initial write-up was good i've discussed some things with people, thought about other aspects and have subsequently tweaked the lists a bit. Substantially? hmmmm... enough for it to play differently.
The core/fluffy fundamentals are all still there, however some aspects - particularly those pertaining engage/assault - have been focused and accentuated to really bring out the intent/purpose of the army.
I had discussions regarding whether some of the units/formations are too good at assault *...
being good at assault is entirely the purpose of the list. it has zero titans or heavy guns, very little that can shoot ranged attacks... am i meant to dial the assault aspect down as well so that it's just a compete rubbish list?
the idea of just having a list with a 'traditional' name on it for the sake of it being there is dumb. the list needs to be viable within it's specific area of expertise.
conversely, people don't go "knights, orks, eldar have it too easy when it comes to assault".
Assault is what these armies are designed to do.
Overall, i consider the list to be duly pondered and contemplated. If something gets a boost in one area it gets a reduction in another. There are not units or formations that are all-round bad-asses, they have a specific focus and, as importantly as any of that, they're consistent with the fluff.
[mic drop]
* as could be gathered this is re Assault Terminators. True, they are potentially good, but they are limited to one per army, and there are situations where their abilities can be entirely negated (i.e. skimmers). Their abilities have been considered and most definitely aren't just 'dial them up to 11.'
Later - 20200724
I got some feedback from taccmd people some months ago which i've contemplated, forgotten about, list tinkered, forgotten about, remembered, forgotten about, and finally, today, i did some specific analysis and edited out the list.
The changes were relatively minor and, no great surprise, were mainly about Army unique units. I very much appreciate the feedback received from the members for this fan list.
until next time...
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